do Constructs need to breathe?

[FWCain]

So, we've got an alchemist who wants to craft "a miniature shoggoth!!" as his familiar...

An alchemical familiar is a construct (instead of an animal). But I'm not seeing an immunity from suffocation listed in the list of immunities for constructs.

Therefore, my question: Does "Blobby" need to have the "amphibious" familiar ability?

Thanks!~
Franklin

[SuperParkourio]

I don't think it's explicitly spelled out anywhere, but I think only living creatures have an assumed need to breathe. Constructs and undead need not worry about breathing.

[kaid]

I never noticed it did not spell that out but I think it depends a bit. If it is an organic construct it maybe needs to breath. If it is inorganic stone/metal/undead bone it shouldn't need to breath.

[Errenor]

Yeah, I can't find it either, we have to rely on common sense.
Which doesn't always work, as at least some PC construct ancestries have need for air as far as I remember. But this is always explicitly written.

[Finoan]

For PC options, the standard answer seems to be that yes, they do need to breathe unless specified otherwise.

Looking at Construct Ancestries:

Automaton says that it doesn't breathe narratively, but mechanically it still does need breathable air and can suffocate like other PC creatures.

Poppet doesn't specify in the base Ancestry entry, but the Windup Poppet Heritage mentions that Windup Poppet needs to breathe the same as all other Poppet heritage options do.

Edit: Ah, the Poppet does specify. They just do so in the Physical Description section rather than in the game mechanics block.

[kaid]

Finoan wrote:

For PC options, the standard answer seems to be that yes, they do need to breathe unless specified otherwise.

Looking at Construct Ancestries:

Automaton says that it doesn't breathe narratively, but mechanically it still does need breathable air and can suffocate like other PC creatures.

Poppet doesn't specify in the base Ancestry entry, but the Windup Poppet Heritage mentions that Windup Poppet needs to breathe the same as all other Poppet heritage options do.

Yeah stuff like that is more of an issue for a player ancestry for a familiar I can't see how it not having to breath would have any major impact on anything.

[Farien]

Fair is fair. If I have to pay an ability slot to be able to breathe water, why shouldn't a construct familiar need to also?

[HammerJack]

PF2 has never wanted to bother with making clear rules about what breathes. They bother to tell you for elementals, but that's about it. With undead the lore sections of Book of the Dead refer to their lack of breath, but explicitly mechanical text never addresses it. For constructs, the PC Construct ancestries mention still needing air as though it's an exception, but no general rule was ever written.

You basically just can't ever rely on RAW to cover it. It's one of the most frequent questions to have such thorough silence on, right alongside "how long do [you can insert most ancestries here] live?"

[Errenor]

HammerJack wrote:

You basically just can't ever rely on RAW to cover it. It's one of the most frequent questions to have such thorough silence on, right alongside "how long do [you can insert most ancestries here] live?"

And when they do give an answer it's not very satisfying for everyone. Yeah, they don't like immortal ancestries. But... Why do they say poppets live 30 years? I really don't understand.

[The Raven Black]

Suffocating makes you Unconscious and keeps you there, which is why, without external help, you will eventually die.

But Constructs are immune to Unconscious.

With quick action and a bit of luck (no crit fail on the Fortitude check), a Construct will escape suffocating almost unscathed.

[FWCain]

Finally found as close to an "official" answer as I deem necessary.

Archives of Nethys wrote:

Construct Trait

"Constructs are not living creatures, nor are they undead."

(emphasis mine)

Since a construct is not truly alive, it does not need to breathe.

Thank you all for your comments and advice!
Franklin

[The Raven Black]

FWCain wrote:

Finally found as close to an "official" answer as I deem necessary.

Archives of Nethys wrote:

Construct Trait

"Constructs are not living creatures, nor are they undead."

(emphasis mine)

Since a construct is not truly alive, it does not need to breathe.

Thank you all for your comments and advice!
Franklin

Note that a fire is not alive. But if you keep the oxygen out, it dies

[Claxon]

The Raven Black wrote:

FWCain wrote:

Finally found as close to an "official" answer as I deem necessary.

Archives of Nethys wrote:

Construct Trait

"Constructs are not living creatures, nor are they undead."

(emphasis mine)

Since a construct is not truly alive, it does not need to breathe.

Thank you all for your comments and advice!
Franklin

Note that a fire is not alive. But if you keep the oxygen out, it dies

That is a bit disingenuous phrasing.

While we colloquially say "the fire died" we mean it was extinguished or ceased burning. The fire was never alive, so it cannot die in the same way that living creatures die.

I assume your statement was meant to merely be wordplay and jest, but it could come across as implying "constructs must breath".

[The Raven Black]

Claxon wrote:

The Raven Black wrote:

FWCain wrote:

Finally found as close to an "official" answer as I deem necessary.

Archives of Nethys wrote:

Construct Trait

"Constructs are not living creatures, nor are they undead."

(emphasis mine)

Since a construct is not truly alive, it does not need to breathe.

Thank you all for your comments and advice!
Franklin

Note that a fire is not alive. But if you keep the oxygen out, it dies

That is a bit disingenuous phrasing.

While we colloquially say "the fire died" we mean it was extinguished or ceased burning. The fire was never alive, so it cannot die in the same way that living creatures die.

I assume your statement was meant to merely be wordplay and jest, but it could come across as implying "constructs must breath".

To be fair, Construct PCs do need breathable air and are subject to the drowning and suffocating rules.

And sadly it was not specified that said rules apply only to living creatures :-(